Ethan Wilde: Good evening everybody, welcome to what is now our third.
Ethan Wilde: guest lecture in the game views speaking series here at Santa Rosa junior college i'm very excited to.
Ethan Wilde: Have the honor and pleasure of introducing somebody that i've only recently got to know, Mr Sean Nelson who is.
Ethan Wilde: A veteran of the field of video games has worked in so many different roles and taught so many different well in their.
Ethan Wilde: educational pathways about how to break into this field, so we are very lucky tonight to have Mr Nelson joining us he works, also in addition to be an instructor at a number of different colleges and universities around the bay area.
Ethan Wilde: Sean is a.
Ethan Wilde: what's your official title in the two K round Sean I know you you're a gatekeeper.
shawn Nelson: yeah you can save source or sources.
Ethan Wilde: yeah you have to to check out people who want to get a job with.
Ethan Wilde: Two K and so without further ado, I want to turn the stage over to shawn Nelson, thank you for joining us tonight Sean it's all yours.
shawn Nelson: yeah hey guys.
shawn Nelson: So welcome, thank you for showing up my name is Sean, as you can see there and tonight i'm going to talk a little bit about not only how to get.
shawn Nelson: into the video game industry or possible ways of possibly getting into the game industry, but like things that you should be doing right now, while you're in school to help kind of.
shawn Nelson: Set you up for that.
shawn Nelson: And and get you prepared for when you actually get out in the real world.
shawn Nelson: As.
shawn Nelson: Some of you may already be all right, I went out in the real world yesterday and I came back quick, it was bad out there.
shawn Nelson: So what i'm going to hear the things i'm going to be covering I made a cover a tips for getting into the game industry, of course, i'm going to talk about a little bit about building a personal brand.
shawn Nelson: i'm going to talk a little bit about what to expect when you apply for a job, and what that process is internally and a little bit of where you should go like now that you've graduated Community college where should you go so stuff like that.
shawn Nelson: i'll cover.
shawn Nelson: The basics of applying for jobs we'll get into it, so let me get into me my my stuff first So these are some of my credits.
shawn Nelson: They span quite.
shawn Nelson: A strange amount of time time and space.
shawn Nelson: I started off my career as a lead animator or as an animator and then rose to lead animator back when I was animating their only seven people on a team and now there's like a couple hundred so was a little stranger back then had to do a lot more.
shawn Nelson: And i've worked for companies, I worked for.
shawn Nelson: Lucas arts and.
shawn Nelson: telltale and shiny and I worked on ghost totally totally games too okay about three or four times.
shawn Nelson: i've been kind of around while I was working.
shawn Nelson: sometime in the middle of my career, I decided that I also wanted to teach classes, so I picked up a part time teaching.
shawn Nelson: class and taught that almost the for the rest of my career and then eventually trans transitioned out of making games into teaching teaching games and game theory I taught i've taught everything i've taught animation or rigging skinning.
shawn Nelson: modeling.
shawn Nelson: game design game construction level art level design all sorts of different things capstone.
shawn Nelson: So i've been around unreal and unity quite a bit.
shawn Nelson: As ethan said that one of my I kind of my career right now is a little strange where i've built it in several different pieces teaching is my favorite part.
shawn Nelson: But.
shawn Nelson: Mostly, most of the teaching around is all part time so i've had to keep some of my day jobs, one of those day jobs is as a sourcing sourcing and talent specialist like half source or half recruiter and I can explain that a little bit for two K games and I was working on.
shawn Nelson: 31st Union when they open that's a two K studio down in San Jose.
shawn Nelson: And right now i'm working on with the for cloud Chamber on the bio shock, the new buyer shock that's coming out and we're recruiting as we speak for that.
shawn Nelson: that's actually kind of a great time it's one of the first times i've seen.
shawn Nelson: In the years that i've been working with to K recruiting that we're looking for junior people which i've never that's like what junior people we never look for junior people so Okay, so in the right place at the right time.
shawn Nelson: All right.
shawn Nelson: To do so, let's talk about.
shawn Nelson: Your plan, unfortunately.
shawn Nelson: Your parents have probably been bugging you, since you graduated high school like what's your plan, what are you going to fly and you're like leave me alone mom i'm going to make games and but they they weren't entirely wrong.
shawn Nelson: you'll find that when you.
shawn Nelson: They weren't they weren't wrong at all, they were right.
shawn Nelson: pitch you'll find when you get out.
shawn Nelson: When when you start preparing yourself to work in the games industry.
shawn Nelson: You spend a lot of time doing different things and that's totally natural, but the more that you can focus on where you actually want to be and.
shawn Nelson: The more direct you become with.
shawn Nelson: What you'd like to do the quicker you'll end up getting a job in the industry, the quicker you'll get to that spot where you are it's it's fine to kind of meander around and.
shawn Nelson: Try things out and see what you're good at you're like Oh, I want to be an animator and then you start animating and you're like I suck it animated.
shawn Nelson: i'm going to be a model there, and so, then you go to modeling like wow i'm really good at this I love zebras and then off you go, but you then spent two years animating and now you've you've like switching directions that this happens all the time and even when you get into the industry.
shawn Nelson: Some some of the different.
shawn Nelson: tracks, you can get into lead to other tracks, like most animator start off as junior animators.
shawn Nelson: become senior animators lead animator you know controlling team, and then they kind of as they get older drift into.
shawn Nelson: Technical animation because they've been using the tools so long that they're the only ones who know how to export the file into it, and so they kind of.
shawn Nelson: dip into that or the become directors like one of those two things both both of those scenarios kind of end up where you don't get to animate anymore you're just you're just doing people.
shawn Nelson: So.
shawn Nelson: My big takeaway from this is picking a discipline early and learning the ins and outs of that discipline will shave time off you.
shawn Nelson: Getting hired into the industry, it.
shawn Nelson: it's good to have a plan and it's good to be able to pivot from that plan, but you have to understand that every time.
shawn Nelson: You do you know you become a stronger person every little thing you do helps out but it just takes you a little bit longer so don't put pressure on yourself to.
shawn Nelson: Try and rush through it, so you can get a job as fast as you can sometimes you know learning all the different stuff makes you a stronger candidate for whatever you're going to do, especially when you don't know what you're going to do.
shawn Nelson: All right next slide.
shawn Nelson: So you're here and how do you get to their Community colleges that's a great start.
shawn Nelson: it's a.
shawn Nelson: I went to Community college my son went to Community college it's a great way to not a lot of money, but you get to school you'd like to go to.
shawn Nelson: You can get all your geez out of the way and still take classes within your major or if you're just taking classes within your major and you know you want to do kind of a direct study it's a great place to that most.
shawn Nelson: Most private schools are running about 8090 grand a year now, which is kind of rough.
shawn Nelson: And I think.
shawn Nelson: Depending on the classes you're taking and the teachers, you get you're getting.
shawn Nelson: You better make sure that the fancy school you go to has the teachers, you want that can teach you the right stuff or you're just going to get the same education for a lot more money.
shawn Nelson: And then.
shawn Nelson: i'm.
shawn Nelson: The the.
shawn Nelson: The jaycees there's the junior colleges and stuff have the transfers to the state schools and the ucs i'm not sure.
shawn Nelson: i'm not i'm not quite sure what Santa Rosa has going on, but I know that college Imran has a direct transfer to one of three ucs that you could want to be, you have to enroll in this special Program.
shawn Nelson: and declare your major and then they had a counselor that worked with my son and then he was able to transfer, he was accepted at Santa Cruz in Berkeley and chose Berkeley.
shawn Nelson: Which is great now he's doing there's a secret game design track at Berkeley so he's doing secret game design over there.
shawn Nelson: Which is kind of funny.
shawn Nelson: All right.
shawn Nelson: To do it's weird i'm used to pausing and ask like hey does anybody have any questions i'm not used to pontificating for so long.
shawn Nelson: So.
shawn Nelson: I have my next slide.
shawn Nelson: Continuing your education.
shawn Nelson: So the the track for most people right going to school, as you well there's there's various tracks so either you go to.
shawn Nelson: Wait animation there's.
shawn Nelson: A regular track where you go to a Community college and then from there, you can go to trade school for gamers like.
shawn Nelson: there's the one in Washington and noman down in Los Angeles, where it's all specialized so you, you get some you get some setting under your belt.
shawn Nelson: At the Community college and then transfer to a two or three year program there's no degrees being offered there I don't think they offer certificates and then we i've talked about the private schools there's a lot of good gaming private schools around.
shawn Nelson: They.
shawn Nelson: You have to kind of look into it to see which one's popular.
shawn Nelson: They kind of fluctuate we were just talking about.
shawn Nelson: utah and they that's not a private school but utah was having some.
shawn Nelson: has some good graduates coming out of it and.
shawn Nelson: Florida had some has some private schools that are pretty good and certainly Georgia has some private schools that are are looking into if you're into humidity.
shawn Nelson: there's also if you already have a degree and you just went back and to Community college to learn about games, you can do.
shawn Nelson: You can do a master's program in game development somewhere and there's a lot of schools, I went to usc this kind of this way, I had a degree in fine art and.
shawn Nelson: I got started getting my second degree in animation at cal arts and halfway through that I went I quit and went to well, I was recruited.
shawn Nelson: I went to usc film school and got my master's there in in game development animation.
shawn Nelson: So that is.
shawn Nelson: A way you can go to.
shawn Nelson: The more the more diverse.
shawn Nelson: Educational programming, you have the better the more attractive, you are well some people like.
shawn Nelson: Especially i'll talk a little bit about Canada where i'm sourcing right now in Canada and those schools are so heavily trafficked that the ubisoft.
shawn Nelson: just goes to the school when the people are freshmen meet meets them and then tracks and through their career and then hires them before they graduated.
shawn Nelson: into the thing that it's so there's such a deficit of talent right now that it's really hard to find anybody right in school who's been hired and most you guys are going wow that sounds really good.
shawn Nelson: If you're Canadian citizen I highly recommend it but it's a little hard to get your visa from America they don't really.
shawn Nelson: bring people over the last little bit, I want to talk about his internships.
shawn Nelson: As a current college students, there are lots of studios out there and you'd be really surprised, who has internships and who doesn't.
shawn Nelson: They don't advertise their programs they don't advertise how to get into their programs, but if you write a nice letter an email to.
shawn Nelson: Someone at the studio generally, they will get back to you, whether or not they have an internship program internship program just so you guys know internship season is just.
shawn Nelson: Closing up right now, people are.
shawn Nelson: filling the spots for the summer, most of its in the summer and then it ends in the fall and then people go back to school.
All right.
shawn Nelson: applying for a job yeah what's the standard process for this.
shawn Nelson: When you when you apply for a position on a website usually like what let me like what I guess the the thing I wanted to talk about here is.
shawn Nelson: What happens when you apply for a job what's what physically happens to your information, what did they actually look at.
shawn Nelson: So when you apply for a job, the.
shawn Nelson: Your.
shawn Nelson: application is then sent into a large database and that and you're assigned to that particular.
shawn Nelson: job with your name and then anything that happens to you can be viewed by the different people who have.
shawn Nelson: interest in that job say the hiring manager, so if you were applied for a job say as a modeler and the the.
shawn Nelson: Lead modeler who's the hiring happens to be the hiring manager on this job would would also be seeing that you applied for that job the recruiter would.
shawn Nelson: Look at your work and see if you're good enough to talk to the hiring manager if he if the recruiter thinks you're good enough to talk to the hiring manager is your then moved into the next stage.
shawn Nelson: Where.
shawn Nelson: You would have another slide i'll show you that.
shawn Nelson: They go, I have a graph.
shawn Nelson: So here you do your preparation and i'll talk about that here in a little bit.
shawn Nelson: Where you.
shawn Nelson: You get your portfolio and your resume and all that stuff together and you apply for the job to once the jobs applied for.
shawn Nelson: Then, your application is reviewed at any given time, you can get rejected from that by anybody, so the applications reviewed by the recruiter or the source or or the talent person like this is what I do is I look at the first people and decide whether or not that they're.
shawn Nelson: talented enough to be moved on to the next stage.
shawn Nelson: If you're not then you we reject you from the system your poor your information is stored in the system, and we see like if a week later, you try and apply for the same job you, it shows up that you already applied for.
shawn Nelson: Or if you apply for 17 jobs, we see that you applied for all 17 jobs that we had available, and we look at you funny.
shawn Nelson: When you apply it's not it's not good to do that, by the way.
shawn Nelson: Alright, so, then you.
shawn Nelson: Once you've if you pass muster and the recruiter likes you enough and thinks that you're.
shawn Nelson: A good fit for the position they will move you on to a hiring manager review hiring manager.
shawn Nelson: Is the person at the studio that will be your boss they're in charge of bringing you on board and they'll be in charge of your training and and and your payroll and doing your schedule, they.
shawn Nelson: Are the person responsible for being your boss within the studio and it's not like the studio head usually.
shawn Nelson: say we go back to the modeling example if you're come in as a junior model or this would be the lead model or or senior modeler would be about.
shawn Nelson: And the lead modeler maintains gives everybody their assignments, and what they're supposed to be doing at the studio.
shawn Nelson: And as a new person you'd come in and you would be slotted into where they needed you to do work based upon your skills like if you sculpt people are you sculpt boxes, or whatever you do so, the hiring manager has a.
shawn Nelson: The first, the first review is by the.
shawn Nelson: recruiter and it's kind of light and fluffy and you learned about the company and and bonuses and and pay and all that sort of stuff the second one with the hiring managers, a little more structured and.
shawn Nelson: And can involve tests like oftentimes if you're a coder.
shawn Nelson: it'll it'll have a test associated with it that's my dog she says hi.
shawn Nelson: and
shawn Nelson: It will he'll he'll give you the nuts and bolts of what the jobs are the job is what their plan is for.
shawn Nelson: completing the project with it all, you know what the style of the thing is they'll go through, and show your stuff and you'll talk to him, and then, if he thinks that you have the chops.
shawn Nelson: To.
shawn Nelson: To work there, then you go to these are mixed up and you go to.
shawn Nelson: An Ohio sorry hiring manager review sorry.
shawn Nelson: recruiter looks at you hiring manager looks at you, if the hiring manager looks at you, then you go to the recruiter screen, this is the light and fluffy phone call wow there's a lot of boxes here.
shawn Nelson: Where you just talk and see if you'd be a good fit, then you have this is the one I was talking about where the hiring manager kind of leans into you and.
shawn Nelson: and make sure that you're a good fit if that one goes well.
shawn Nelson: Then you go for a team interview with the larger team, and this could be other modelers sometimes it's producers.
shawn Nelson: Sometimes it's other people that you might be working with.
shawn Nelson: I like to call this interview with this person be cool to go to lunch with because that's pretty much like if the hiring manager likes you that's that's a pretty good sign it's not very often that you, you would not make it through the hiring manager review.
shawn Nelson: or you'd make it to the hiring manager review and then the and then the team interview, they would kick you out so if everything goes, all well then you're sent an offer, and if you agree to that offer and the terms, then you're hired.
shawn Nelson: And that is the recruiting process.
shawn Nelson: And it's loads of fun.
shawn Nelson: at every turn there's.
shawn Nelson: Little details that she needs like this could go well, and then it goes to this person like hey did they know how to program in Python you're like oh crap I forgot to ask them so, then you have to go back and ask them before you can have a phone call with him, you need to get that.
shawn Nelson: anyways.
shawn Nelson: So that's the that's the general process that you'll go through when you apply for a company a games company that's that's what we do it too okay anyways.
shawn Nelson: are applying for job requires exposure time to create your personal brand.
shawn Nelson: So what does this mean.
shawn Nelson: Your personal brand.
shawn Nelson: let's see.
just wondering.
shawn Nelson: So your personal brand right is how you look to the world and, as a.
shawn Nelson: As somebody who wants to work in the game industry, you need to make sure that your personal brand is in line with whichever studio you would like to be applying with and every studio is different.
shawn Nelson: And every job at every studios different, and so it really behooves you to do your homework and see who you're going to be talking to who the hiring manager, is what the style of the studio is like, if you have all you know, like cartoon.
shawn Nelson: And i'm a sort of work and you're applying to like a very realistic studio somewhere like a war game of something.
shawn Nelson: You chances are you're not going to get hired there, but if you if your work is in line with.
shawn Nelson: What the studio wants if you done your homework then your personal brand will aid you in getting that gig.
shawn Nelson: And so we'll talk a little bit about.
shawn Nelson: How you how you.
shawn Nelson: form that in a second, I just want to say that when you apply for a job you're making like a first impression on those people.
shawn Nelson: That like that's your one chance to put yourself forward in a really, really good way, and when when I see a resume or a linkedin come in and it's a very polished and very well done.
shawn Nelson: set of data it's much better than to get one that's all messy like this, I could have two people with very similar talents and I will choose the one who has the Nice resume a very clean and and.
shawn Nelson: A very clean and easy to read linkedin and easily accessible portfolio, rather than.
shawn Nelson: You know the guy where it's like oh I forgot to put my email down oh I didn't include my phone number and my reels.
shawn Nelson: not spelled right so there's no connection to it, so you never get a second chance to make a first impression I think that's a commercial.
shawn Nelson: So you want to make sure that.
shawn Nelson: When you when you do present yourself to people that you take control of that narrative and you let people know.
shawn Nelson: That you are the best candidate to be hired when you when you fill out the application for getting for applying to the job, everything is spelled right.
shawn Nelson: You have all your information, ready to go you fill out each of the forms exactly how they're supposed to be, these are the things that make the recruiter.
shawn Nelson: Like you, and you have to get past the recruiter.
shawn Nelson: To get the gig, no matter how good you are.
shawn Nelson: Although some people are so talented that they can slide by a little bit, but those are few and far between.
shawn Nelson: Alright, so let's talk about creating your personal brand studies to do we talked a little bit about job application.
shawn Nelson: and
shawn Nelson: that's.
shawn Nelson: Simply filling out the form correctly like answering the questions correctly supplying all the information that they're asking for.
shawn Nelson: Having dates ready to go, so this requires a little preparation on your part.
shawn Nelson: You need to have all all your stuff ready, however, most of that stuff usually is available on your resume so.
shawn Nelson: If you have a decent resume then your application is easy to to fill out.
shawn Nelson: This is all backed up with social media and i'll go through social media in a little bit because there are other benefits to having a clean and well presented linkedin profile.
shawn Nelson: And then, of course, your your portfolio which, if you're depending on who you are like if you're a coder your portfolio is probably not very good, but any of the other.
shawn Nelson: disciplines.
shawn Nelson: portfolio is a decent thing to have actually if you're like a blueprint coder.
shawn Nelson: Then, or a substance designer coder, then I would I would want to see your blue your your your your trees your code trees and that would have to be presented in a portfolio of some sort.
shawn Nelson: Excuse me for a SEC.
shawn Nelson: alright.
shawn Nelson: Moving on, oh, I went too far, I went too far we're at the end of the thing all right that's it good night.
shawn Nelson: Your resume now.
shawn Nelson: Basically, a resume should summarize your employment history your talk, talk to your skills speak to your education have specific dates on all that stuff I worked at this company from this time to this time I did this, while I was at that company.
shawn Nelson: And then it should showcase any kind of.
shawn Nelson: special education, you might have like I know c++ I know Python I know Mel whatever you know i'm really good and see brush it should have any of that.
shawn Nelson: and
shawn Nelson: It should.
shawn Nelson: Be you know very clean and easy to read.
shawn Nelson: Absolutely should have a link to your portfolio absolutely should have your email and absolutely.
shawn Nelson: It should have occurred your name and your schooling stuff on it.
shawn Nelson: The those are like and then whatever jobs, you had and stuff it should have those as well, but like I see so many that have like.
shawn Nelson: People don't want to put their emails on there, because they don't want to be bothered by people, except that they're trying to get a job, and then I can't contact them because.
shawn Nelson: They don't put their email on there and then I have to find them on linkedin it's a big kind of it's a pet peeve of mine we'll go into that a little bit.
shawn Nelson: So what what should you what should your resume look like.
shawn Nelson: Unfortunately resumes change drastically.
shawn Nelson: Like every three months or something so it's next to impossible to say this is exactly what your resume should have so instead i'm going to say your resume should have.
shawn Nelson: The information that I talked about before should have all all your links to your portfolio your name your entire work history your entire school history.
shawn Nelson: And then any skills that you might have that are pertinent to the gig and then you can arrange that any way you want on the resume and i've seen some really weird ones.
shawn Nelson: And they're fun, but then I, and I do remember them and i've seen some really straight laced ones that are I don't remember what they look like, but it did the job just fine so i'll leave it to your own.
shawn Nelson: Your own.
shawn Nelson: idea of what a resume should be other than it should contain the information in an easel easy easily accessible and.
shawn Nelson: and
shawn Nelson: easily access half, it should have all your information, easily accessible right there, so I don't have to go digging for it, or a recruiter doesn't have to go dig it I made this all personal it's all about me.
shawn Nelson: stop making it hard for me to read your resume.
shawn Nelson: let's see, I have notes here it's important to realize that recruiters take well under minute to scan each resume that's true I barely look at your resume I look for the information I need, which is why I like it clean.
shawn Nelson: and simple, because if it's all wonky, then I have to go looking for it, and then it takes me two minutes to look at your resume and when I have 500 people to review in a day.
shawn Nelson: I get I get cranky and sometimes I don't give time to the resume that I should have not just me everybody.
shawn Nelson: You know when you're going through a whole lot of stuff sometimes if things are a little weird.
shawn Nelson: you're like I just can't deal with this time out and then you just pass them over so don't be that person that gets passed over because you are too clever on your resume.
shawn Nelson: You would everyone that make sure the information is easily accessible alright that's My big resume talk unless they're all over the place, I got crazy fingers.
shawn Nelson: resume.
shawn Nelson: To do portfolio put flew this my favorite one.
shawn Nelson: All of you guys, who are working as anything but a programmer should have a portfolio and you should probably have it where everybody else has theirs in art station, although that's not.
shawn Nelson: it's not if you're an animator sometimes they have them on vimeo and i'll go over social sites before or in a bit, but.
shawn Nelson: Most of my work because i'm a i'm an art recruiter mostly animation and design and modeling and things like that.
shawn Nelson: So, most of the most of the time when i'm reviewing person I like the resume make sure they have all the things I need all the keywords are there and then I go look at their portfolio and I can tell.
shawn Nelson: If they'll be a good fit or where they are in their career just by looking at their work.
shawn Nelson: And that's exactly what you want to do you want to show people where you are with your your stuff.
shawn Nelson: In your portfolio.
shawn Nelson: and
shawn Nelson: If you have a piece that you really like and it sucks you need to throw it out, because that one piece will kill your entire portfolio so always have when you're creating a portfolio always have a friend look at it.
shawn Nelson: So I guess a little bit about portfolios most up most you guys are like probably just starting years out and don't know.
shawn Nelson: What to do to make a portfolio it's The easiest way to do tend to if you don't know how to create a portfolio, or what one should look like, or what you should have in it.
shawn Nelson: it's really good to go to art station and then find somebody in the field that you're in that's higher up like a senior leader or something and see what they've done with their portfolio.
shawn Nelson: Especially like I want to work at blizzard blizzard my favorite place in the world.
shawn Nelson: So then go to the blizzard go to art station find some higher up find some you know, like lead concept artists or whatever at blizzard and see what they're doing with their work.
shawn Nelson: Look at notice what color they're using how they're laying up their pictures, what kind of pictures they're doing, are they characters are they backgrounds that they rocks do they have like.
shawn Nelson: Images just try your best to it, while you're just starting out try your best to mimic what they've done and don't don't find like some kid at.
shawn Nelson: You know the Academy of art, who has a really cool portfolio because they're not the ones hiring go find like an actual lead or or a senior somebody higher up and then aspire to have your stuff like don't start at the bottom start at the top and try and aspire to be that in your portfolio.
shawn Nelson: You can also have your portfolio on your private on a private website, but that's I run into very few of those and.
shawn Nelson: It it's Okay, but then all your other if you have other information on your website, like most of the people have blogs, and they talk about their catalog or something.
shawn Nelson: And then I end up reading about their cat and not looking at their works.
shawn Nelson: All right, did you.
shawn Nelson: let's talk a little bit about social social media sites for hosting your.
shawn Nelson: workout so a number one top of the line things you should do this evening, when you get off of this call is go sign up for a linkedin account and put as much stuff in that linkedin account, as you possibly can, this is linkedin here.
shawn Nelson: i'm not sure which one of my monitors is maybe neither is showing my mouse linkedin is the I n one if you're not familiar with it, this is where everybody who works in almost every field in the entire everything gets found.
shawn Nelson: And they're found through skills and keywords and algorithms and things like that, but.
shawn Nelson: What you want to do is while you're still in school starts your linkedin.
shawn Nelson: Start collecting friends, the more friends, you have the better chances, you have of having a friend who's at a at a studio somewhere sometime in the future, so you can see how this goes you start now you collect lots of friends.
shawn Nelson: You share your work back and forth you keep building your linkedin profile.
shawn Nelson: And recruiters can find you and you'll see if you've never done that they have a section it's just like filling out a giant resume in fact you can take a linkedin account and print it like a resume in a.
shawn Nelson: In a in a peon in a PDF it's pretty cool sometimes when I can't find people's resumes I will just print their linkedin and put it into their file that's what you get for not putting your stuff out there, where I can see it easily.
shawn Nelson: The best for all the same stuff a resume does, but then it has a really interesting section.
shawn Nelson: Where it asks you for your skills and a lot of people recruiters and headhunters and sorcerers.
shawn Nelson: will go into linkedin and we have a thing called linkedin recruiter this a special linkedin where we can type in keywords and like i'm looking for.
shawn Nelson: A somebody with three years experience in California that has those unreal five and does blue printing and i'll type that in and it gives me a giant list of like thousands of people who fit that role, maybe not thousands, maybe hundreds.
shawn Nelson: And I can start sorting through them based upon I can like there's more search parameters that I can put in there, but if you have those skills and you're in linkedin and recruiters looking for you looking for somebody with that particular set of skills that you have like Liam neeson.
shawn Nelson: Then you can.
shawn Nelson: Then, then you're you're you're on your way they'll give you a call and say hey i'm a recruiter and you have the skills, I need, would you be interested in applying for a job.
shawn Nelson: That happens all the time, in fact, when we can't find people that's what I have to do, I have to go on to linkedin and art station and and kind of comb through the the kind of people that were looking for and make sure that within their linkedin profiles it, it calls out the different.
shawn Nelson: attributes that we're looking for there so linkedin a number one go do that as soon as i'm done talking here, maybe even before right art station is my favorite place to look at portfolios.
shawn Nelson: it's it's if you're a 2d artist or 3D artist it's not great for animation but i've seen quite a few animators on their.
shawn Nelson: concept art it's just a really neat place to go if you want to see if you've never been there, you should sign up for it but it's a really neat and interesting place to look for.
shawn Nelson: artwork and ideas that people have used and there's all it's mostly you know, everybody on their works at some ridiculous studio doing something super cool so and then a lot of people from China and Korea and stuff as well it's and all over the world, actually.
shawn Nelson: So even if you don't you should go set up the linkedin thing and then good art station and set up a portfolio there and just start now keep and throw stuff up there, and people will comment on it and give you feedback and stuff it's really neat.
shawn Nelson: All right, if you're an animator vimeo here is where most people who need to post reels video of their works that's where they put all their stuff is.
shawn Nelson: On vimeo some people put their work on YouTube because vimeo is kind of a pain in the butt.
shawn Nelson: So YouTube is not.
shawn Nelson: If you have a website and you want to host and you want to put your work on your website.
shawn Nelson: A YouTube if you.
shawn Nelson: upload your your real to YouTube it's very easily easy to put on your local website either wordpress or or Wicks or whatever you're using.
shawn Nelson: Much easier than vimeo vimeo so like I said payment I have both I i've switched to just using YouTube lately, because I like that, and you can take YouTube videos and post them on art station which is kind of cool.
shawn Nelson: All right, if you're an engineer, and you want to post, some of your code on github because people recruiters troll github all the time looking for engineers, with particular skills.
shawn Nelson: So if you have some interesting programming chops or you like making tools post them there and you'll get calls the ones I don't really like our instagram and Twitter, maybe because i'm old and cranky.
shawn Nelson: But having to go to somebody's Twitter feed to look for their portfolio is a pain in the butt.
shawn Nelson: pin pinterest isn't on here but that's another one like I much rather go to pinterest because at least that's.
shawn Nelson: A consolidated a gallery of their work, whereas Twitter like oh wait wait wait no that post was seven i'm scrolling down and instagram is so like I love going to instagram and looking at stuff but.
shawn Nelson: i'll be looking at somebody's portfolio and then all of a sudden, like somebody with the weimer honor that stolen ice cream will come by and then i'm gone like oh look my run ice cream oh look at caton the canoe with a beer oh like it goes on and on, and then I only.
shawn Nelson: want people to focus on your work instagram not a great place to have it done.
shawn Nelson: So so much fun what was my takeaway from this one oh yeah linkedin go to linkedin and sign up for an account today super important.
shawn Nelson: Oh, one more thing, while i'm talking about portfolios and stuff.
shawn Nelson: Unless there one thing I encounter all the time is password that's another vimeo.
shawn Nelson: specialty password ID reels and portfolios.
shawn Nelson: The only reason you should ever have a password real or portfolio is, if you have an nda.
shawn Nelson: stuff in there, meaning your you'd like worked on the new marvel game and it hasn't released yet so you're not really allowed to show your work, so you have it password protected, so that you can show.
shawn Nelson: Your work, one on one but you're not allowed to show it to the public and that's the only reason to pass if you password your work, just because.
shawn Nelson: And you're like a student i'm going to get so angry and I might not look at your work, although my boss gets really upset when I do that but that's my.
shawn Nelson: that's right that's where I draw my line it's such a pet peeve of mine i'm like nope she's out it's like you have to look to her work nope nope i'm not emailing her for password she should have had it in there.
shawn Nelson: Alright, where I gotta I gotta wrap up chatting home i'm going to slow.
shawn Nelson: Oh game over know we're just we're okay.
shawn Nelson: So what is my what is one of my big things for here.
shawn Nelson: I think you should have a plan, I think, even if you don't follow that plan, you should start invent a plan and try and go with it and then pivot if you need to but have a plan because it'll save you a lot of time in the future.
shawn Nelson: definitely want to start building your personal brand now every everything you work on archive it or you know, like save a copy of it.
shawn Nelson: Take a picture of it doesn't matter what it is like Oh, it was just an assignment, like everything you work on.
shawn Nelson: have some record of it and save it and then later on, you might it might make more sense and in the larger sort of arena, where it doesn't make sense by itself, but like Oh, I did that, but then you actually did 10 more and now, that is your 11 and anyways.
shawn Nelson: build your personal brand say save any work that you ever do.
shawn Nelson: Make sure you don't.
shawn Nelson: make yourself look silly doing crazy things unless that's the brand you want to build.
shawn Nelson: If that works for you i'm not going to stop you there are people that works for.
shawn Nelson: But make sure that when you build your brand that at least your information is clearly clear is clear for other people to understand.
shawn Nelson: Perfect prepare yourself for the application process and interview process, meaning.
shawn Nelson: Before you apply for a job know what you're getting into know the WHO, the people like look you have linkedin knowledge now, so you can look, you can look at the people you're going to be interviewing with and see what they've done where they went to school what their interests are.
shawn Nelson: What games they worked on before kind of get a feel for them use linkedin like a.
shawn Nelson: Like a research.
shawn Nelson: tool for whatever you do you want to apply to accompany research, the people working there and see where they all came from see what schools, they went to.
shawn Nelson: And then go to that school because most likely if 10 other people went to nor school in Montreal, and then got jobs, it will be soft on.
shawn Nelson: On something, then you if you went to school as well, then you could get the job at ubisoft if that's your dream or or wherever you want to go.
shawn Nelson: Most studios.
shawn Nelson: Have a college that's near them that they grab people out of most most So if you just find the studio you can find the College and then.
shawn Nelson: that'll help you get a work on it so prepare yourself do your research, make sure you're knowledgeable about whatever you're talking about.
shawn Nelson: and be honest with people if you don't know something to say I don't know and most people are okay with that because that's why you're.
shawn Nelson: A newbie and not seasoned professional if you're a seasoned professional I wouldn't be talking to you all right and learn how to prepare the best showcase yourself.
shawn Nelson: get your portfolio looking good make sure you look at other people's work and that your work is in line with what they're doing.
shawn Nelson: Otherwise, if you just wing it there's a fair chance that you won't be.
shawn Nelson: What people are looking for like materials artists, I only really look at people who do materials on little balls which is stupid, but they tend to be more professional than people who say their material artist and then show me a whole bunch of people suits and stuff.
shawn Nelson: they've isolated it and they rendered it nicely and then.
shawn Nelson: What was the last thing join linkedin and network.
shawn Nelson: Start networking now, because then, by the time you graduate you'll have a bunch of friends who might be working.
shawn Nelson: Alright, that is me.
shawn Nelson: we'll get you.
shawn Nelson: guys if I stop sharing we come back.
shawn Nelson: And i'll answer any questions that anybody has.
shawn Nelson: To do hey Benjamin.
Benjamin Hammer: Can you hear me still hey yeah I can hear you perfectly do we want to move into the question answers ethan.
Ethan Wilde: sounds good to me thank you so much john for a brilliant presentation.
Ethan Wilde: Thank you did a great job of introducing.
Ethan Wilde: Many considerations for folks and so i'm going to turn things over to Benjamin to shepherd us through a Q amp a session.
shawn Nelson: cool great Thank you perfect.
Benjamin Hammer: Alright, so yeah we don't we we don't have too many questions, and if the audience.
Benjamin Hammer: thinks of anything else they'd like to know, please feel free to shoot me that question I just saw a new one come through from TIM so we'll get to that ASAP TIM but i'll just start moving through these so Gregor Gonzalez asks.
Benjamin Hammer: Due to the pandemic or companies still allowing developers to work from home.
shawn Nelson: Oh yeah.
shawn Nelson: That is a one of the largest things that came out of the pandemic, in fact, the aforementioned ubisoft has switched to a four day optional work week to try and.
shawn Nelson: get people to come to compact to work like to come back five days you can come back for days, but also a lot of.
shawn Nelson: Not not so much at the junior level, but a lot of like if you're a senior programmer or your senior something rather.
shawn Nelson: Like a senior effects artist right something really like the probably the two most desirable positions in the industry, right now, are effects artist and.
shawn Nelson: And programmer of some sort and those guys can live wherever they want and just phone in their work every day they don't have to be there.
Benjamin Hammer: live in the dream.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah yeah anything else to add to that or.
shawn Nelson: For for the pandemic.
shawn Nelson: yeah I don't I don't see people will.
shawn Nelson: My wife works for two K as well, and she just went back for the first time in three years, like the other day, but just for fun.
And though nobody there.
Benjamin Hammer: Okay she's the only one onsite.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah Okay, and do you think, would you say that's the norm.
shawn Nelson: yeah i'd say that's pretty standard.
shawn Nelson: across.
shawn Nelson: The country yeah.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah okay.
shawn Nelson: A lot of a lot of people were holding out like no, you have to come in we're renting this giant building and they're like i'm just go over here and not come in, so why should I say.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah save the company, a lot of money, if you got rid of that giant building.
yeah.
shawn Nelson: that's what I always thought.
shawn Nelson: Like 30 31st Union has giant building and I don't i've never been there.
shawn Nelson: they'd like bought it right before the pandemic.
shawn Nelson: And when I was working for them, I never made it down there because I live in I live in Moran and it's down in San Jose but nobody's there like even the guy who the head of the company is doesn't do in that much so.
He might now.
shawn Nelson: Since things are loosened up but yeah.
shawn Nelson: I wouldn't I wouldn't wouldn't not apply to a job, somewhere, because.
shawn Nelson: You don't live there, they most likely will not make you move out there, there is one thing I want to add to that, though, is that, like with two K, we have a caveat where we have certain states.
shawn Nelson: In America, that we don't have a tax bracket in so utah Idaho are two of them, so we can't hire people from those states, because we can't pay taxes and.
Benjamin Hammer: I see.
Benjamin Hammer: I see that's pretty important yeah.
shawn Nelson: yeah so now, you can work from home as long as you're not voice here utah.
shawn Nelson: North Carolina.
Benjamin Hammer: I think we heard from ethan at the beginning that Gregor is out of.
Benjamin Hammer: utah I believe.
shawn Nelson: yeah.
Benjamin Hammer: A graduate out of utah well something to keep in mind Gregor.
shawn Nelson: Anyway, and i'm just talking to K Gregor there are lots of other companies that probably do have a tax thing in utah totally totally.
Benjamin Hammer: Well, moving right along we're getting a lot of questions in now quite a few here so that's good i'm seeing a lot of good ones lex has a number of questions so i'm going to move i'm just going to go straight through all of the questions that she has or they have.
Benjamin Hammer: The first question here is outside of the technical skills animation regular rigging design, etc, what other skill sets are you looking for in new hires what quote unquote soft skills are sought after and can you speak to the importance of these soft skills, if they are important.
So.
shawn Nelson: So you're not you're not you're not artistically inclined or programming Lee inclined, are you are you more interested in like a producer sort of role or marketing there's lots of roles.
shawn Nelson: Again company is kind of like a city there's like so many thing different things to do.
shawn Nelson: I just because i'm a recruiter for the art side of it, I and and an art and I was an artist in the industry for myself for a bunch of years I tend to hang out in that camp, but.
shawn Nelson: Quite a quite a few like there's recruiting and HR and all sorts of stuff like it takes many, many people to put a game studio together and put out I don't know if that answers your question but.
shawn Nelson: To K in Nevada here has a non art.
shawn Nelson: internship that's.
shawn Nelson: That they do, which is all marketing and and other stuff like that.
shawn Nelson: And they're there, I think I don't know if they've closed it or not yet, but you can.
shawn Nelson: Certainly just email info at to K and get their number and apply for that pretty easily it might even be on their website.
Benjamin Hammer: gotcha gotcha well lex if that answers your question off awesome If not, if there was anything you'd like to clear up for us feel free to message me.
Benjamin Hammer: So we'll move on to the next question they wanted to ask with with what is happening at activision blizzard how or in what ways is diversity and inclusion being integrated into the industry and hiring.
shawn Nelson: Oh yeah that's a big one, see for.
shawn Nelson: For as long as games have been around it's been nothing but 30 year old white males.
shawn Nelson: 20 to 30 year old white males and run this place so that's you know that's not entirely true but that's been the bulk of the industry.
shawn Nelson: And it's changing now and on and on purpose there's a very.
shawn Nelson: A very strong effort to.
shawn Nelson: promote diversity.
shawn Nelson: Over just hiring the same old person again and for the better right because that diversity also brings diversity to the game, not just people wise but likes style wise talent wise view wise right like.
shawn Nelson: So I know we have huge initiative and and where we we have roles that are only open to women and.
shawn Nelson: roles that are only open to.
shawn Nelson: People of a more diverse nature and I don't know how to say.
Benjamin Hammer: No, I think that's beautiful yeah I think I think that's awesome it's definitely a step in the right direction.
Benjamin Hammer: So we'll move on, I will circle circle back around to your questions lex if we have time but i'm going to move on to some some other people's questions so Jose asks a nice short question here, what is a code tree, can you answer that.
shawn Nelson: Oh sure um so if.
shawn Nelson: If you're working in blueprint unreal blueprint, you know I don't I don't know where you are with stuff or if you're a coder or whatever.
shawn Nelson: But.
shawn Nelson: So.
shawn Nelson: Quite where do I begin with this quite a few of the art programs today say substance designer and unreal to name a couple of them.
shawn Nelson: Are work work now on a nodal programming system, so instead of having a big bunch of lines of code.
shawn Nelson: Little boxes connected with wires that do the same thing that code does it's just that.
shawn Nelson: it's laid out in a different way and a lot it's kind of something that came over from the movie side and it's now integrated into the game engines and the like, so a very large.
shawn Nelson: substance designer you know, like a substance substance substance designer is a program that makes textures.
shawn Nelson: And the each little boxes effects like I want when the sun hits it I want it to reflect, but not where the letters are.
shawn Nelson: And the letters when it heats up will turn green and they do all sorts of weird stuff like that so code tree is just the programming language for that functionality, but done in a graphical orientation.
Benjamin Hammer: Totally yeah.
shawn Nelson: If you look up substance designer code tree on the Internet you'll see exactly what i'm talking about or unreal blueprint.
it's a really fun.
Benjamin Hammer: fun way to get things working in a game I haven't worked with it much i've mainly worked in javascript.
Benjamin Hammer: About with ethan under ethan's instruction and and i'm loving that so far, but I have been working a little bit more in in code trees.
Benjamin Hammer: And and it's.
Benjamin Hammer: it's it's a fun way to get things linked up and working in your game, but anyways Moving on, I think that was a wonderful way to answer that question for Jose hopefully that worked for him.
Benjamin Hammer: TIM asks what kinds of schools should we avoid.
shawn Nelson: The kind that charge a lot of money and don't have any graduates that are anywhere.
shawn Nelson: I don't I don't really want to name them off, but I probably worked.
shawn Nelson: literally just just make sure when you're because it's your money right so and you don't want to graduate and oh like $180,000 just for a mediocre.
shawn Nelson: Education, so if you do want to go someplace make sure you research it thoroughly and see what their placement is.
shawn Nelson: And who's who's teaching they're like where the teachers coming from how they are the teachers been there for like 100 years not done anything or.
shawn Nelson: Are you know, are they like straight out of you know they work at pixar during the day and then at night they're at the school.
shawn Nelson: Like find the find those sort of things, and then you know there's always like huge established schools that are on the cutting edge like usc stupid game program is so cutting edge it's super hard to get into now and.
shawn Nelson: And UCLA gaming program is okay and yeah and like riverside has a good one, like this.
shawn Nelson: Art Center is probably a good place to go because i've never met a poor person from art Center that's a personal thing like I did anybody ever know from art centers really wealthy and those I think they teach you it's a business school that does art.
Benjamin Hammer: For sure.
Benjamin Hammer: But we're getting from our utah graduate Gregor he's vouching for utah say go to utah.
shawn Nelson: utah there's another.
shawn Nelson: cost of living at utah's fantastic right.
shawn Nelson: And nice place to live, if you like, the outdoors and stuff i'm a huge mountain biker so i'd like yeah i'm down with the utah thing.
shawn Nelson: And they've they've really they've come, you know they've come forward with some really decent candidates lately, which were like utah really all right.
shawn Nelson: i'm okay with that.
shawn Nelson: So whatever they're doing there recently it's.
shawn Nelson: been great and.
shawn Nelson: Nice job graduating from there.
Benjamin Hammer: So go to a good school.
shawn Nelson: Just do you do your research first like.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah.
You know.
shawn Nelson: there's no there's no school like you go to the cat like the same person go to the Academy of art or the art Center or cal arts, or whatever right.
shawn Nelson: and
shawn Nelson: And, and from a from a company point of view i'm not going to say one of those schools is any better than they are right, like to me that all just expensive art schools.
shawn Nelson: And they could produce a better quality person or not, so if that if if you're not going to a school where the school itself will elevate your.
shawn Nelson: Your deal, then you should probably think about going somewhere else, like don't go to the Academy of art, just because you have a game program because you could do better, like my son could have gone to Santa Cruz, and they have a great games Program.
shawn Nelson: But he wanted to go to Berkeley because it's Berkeley.
shawn Nelson: That was that was his deal.
shawn Nelson: I go to Santa Cruz, but.
shawn Nelson: And he's a fine art major us, but if I go to Berkeley, then I went to Berkeley.
Benjamin Hammer: Totally.
shawn Nelson: And that cache will definitely give him street cred when he goes to apply for stuff like if you had a student from Santa Christmas the student from Berkeley you choose this.
shawn Nelson: Because of berkeley's cache you choose Berkeley so make sure you take that, in consideration when you're choosing your your transfer schools.
Benjamin Hammer: I see yeah that's a lot to keep in mind, but I think I think there's good things in all of our futures, if we take the time and and and work off of your knowledge that you're offering us here today.
shawn Nelson: Oh yeah.
Benjamin Hammer: Moving forward from there, we got another question here from Jose do you have any idea or do you have any advice, if I want to develop indie games.
shawn Nelson: yeah develop indie games.
Benjamin Hammer: There you go I love it short and I think that's the best advice for an independent developer right.
shawn Nelson: yeah well, I mean it's it'd be like an entire.
shawn Nelson: You know weeks worth of talking like okay what software, do you want to use what kind of indie game, do you want to make as a 2d 3D.
shawn Nelson: Where do you want to put it, you want to put it out on mobile is this for the iPhone is this for android like it.
shawn Nelson: Like start you know I always think when I whenever I get into a weird project like that, like, I have an idea, but I don't know how to execute on it, I just start.
shawn Nelson: Writing down bits of like just making decisions on it, and if the decisions change that's fine, but like Okay, I want to make a game about gophers that are blowing things up.
shawn Nelson: And I want it to be on the android because that's cheaper than producing on the iPhone and i'm going to use unity, because unreal charges too much, and I don't have a I have a programmer who knows FC but not blueprint.
shawn Nelson: And it's going to be 2d because I don't have a 3D artists or animator, but I have a 2d guy so just start.
shawn Nelson: Making making a list like make your company, if you want to make an indie game, and you want to do it yourself.
shawn Nelson: start doing that, like writing write your company like this is the name of my company, this is what kind of game are going to make.
shawn Nelson: This is what's going to happen in the game, this is a little blurb about the story, and so, then when you have that, then you at least have a direction to turn and like I said, if it pivots that's fine, but like you know make your map I keep going back to that again wow that's like.
shawn Nelson: making up for the night yeah.
Benjamin Hammer: No, I love it.
shawn Nelson: that's great good plan.
Benjamin Hammer: But I think developing a game independently, especially if you're going if you're planning to develop it.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah entirely independently on your own.
Benjamin Hammer: Just start.
Benjamin Hammer: Just start developing it.
Benjamin Hammer: and make your map as you go.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah cuz sitting there planning, and all this when you're developing on your own is, in my opinion, a big waste of time just do it.
shawn Nelson: yeah I agree what will come up with something.
shawn Nelson: And then get started.
shawn Nelson: And then.
shawn Nelson: figured out what it.
Benjamin Hammer: means so much.
yeah.
shawn Nelson: The other thing you can do is find somebody who's already doing it and jump in with them.
shawn Nelson: Like there's plenty of people on the Internet heard like hey I need somebody who's a 3D modeler to work on my indie game for free.
shawn Nelson: But when we sell the game or a you.
shawn Nelson: Go work on those.
Benjamin Hammer: sounds good.
Benjamin Hammer: i'll skip that job offer but sounds like a possibility for somebody else so Ben Ben lash asks, are there any examples of keeping costs down with sound recording and music scenery etc.
Benjamin Hammer: Probably traveling on location can be expensive, so what can be done to keep development costs down in general.
shawn Nelson: or traveling on location for.
Benjamin Hammer: For audio audio audio recording I suppose.
Benjamin Hammer: The question you have a good answer for.
shawn Nelson: Well yeah I do a lot of audio stuff you know yeah i'm i'm.
shawn Nelson: i'm so lazy.
Benjamin Hammer: Sure sure okay.
shawn Nelson: So if can patient and anytime I need some audio to record I just go on YouTube and and steal it off of video that somebody recorded or their vacation.
shawn Nelson: I need babbling brook sounds like temptation records your screen and super high resolution and and high def audio until I just dropped the instead of buying like a.
shawn Nelson: You know, like a sound library or something.
shawn Nelson: If I, if I can get it off the Internet for free, I totally do that.
shawn Nelson: and generally, if you look at people's vacations and stuff rather than typing and don't type in sound effect or closing you like fine you type in on YouTube like my sister slam the door.
shawn Nelson: And then you can grab that bit of audio from that actual event and then use that in your game, so that saves a bunch of time and money but mostly time yes yeah i'm lazy.
Benjamin Hammer: that's ingenious I love it i'll definitely steal that.
Benjamin Hammer: That is a great idea um.
Benjamin Hammer: Okay, so jack jack Stewart has a good question here.
Benjamin Hammer: If I already have a degree, does it make sense to get another bachelor's or would it be better to just try for a master's Also, what is the value of a CS degree versus a degree with a concentration in game development.
shawn Nelson: um that's a good question, so I have three kind of half assed degrees.
shawn Nelson: And then to real ones, have a fine art degree from the Academy of art and then I went to long beach State to do sculpture, and then I went to.
shawn Nelson: cal arts and I was at college around for a little bit.
shawn Nelson: And then I got my masters at usc so I have three false starts to my credits which all help me become you know one kind of led to the other like I would have never got into the UFC had I not been at cal arts.
shawn Nelson: I would have never gotten to cal arts, had I not been at long beach state, you know, like all this kind of weird cascading stuff helped me do it.
shawn Nelson: I would say.
shawn Nelson: If I were to.
shawn Nelson: I don't want to make a choice for you, but I would I would go for the master's degree, because it.
shawn Nelson: Is.
shawn Nelson: It it gives you a lot of opportunities.
shawn Nelson: Not only opportunities with whoever you're doing your master's program with and stuff but.
shawn Nelson: Opportunities afterwards, like you can teach wherever you want some and sometimes.
shawn Nelson: People you know jobs, require that you have a master's degree in things, however, a CS degree is like gold, these days, so if you want to work in the games industry.
shawn Nelson: And you have and you're able to do CS like not CSS weird it's like.
shawn Nelson: Not everybody can do it, you either have the head for it, or you don't and people don't have the head for it shouldn't do that, but if you have the head for it, you should for sure do it because you can make a lot of money doing.
shawn Nelson: My friend's daughter went to.
shawn Nelson: Santa Cruz, and she went through the program graduated with a fine art games major right she loves drawing and doing like she loves drawing casino art game like for slot machines and stuff that's her jam man like little palm trees and stuff.
shawn Nelson: And she came out and she spent like a year trying to get a job as an artist doing casino games and stuff.
shawn Nelson: And then.
shawn Nelson: One of her friends got a job at Facebook and said hey you're not a code right she's like yeah but I don't like doing it and she's like well your job, and so she's now like one of the programmers on their Avatar.
shawn Nelson: And she doesn't do any more art she works with our she codes for our but she doesn't need to draw the art herself anymore.
shawn Nelson: But she's super happy like why didn't I do this earlier, I was like we kept telling you to do that, like you have a coding you're coding genius why the hell, are you fooling around with art.
shawn Nelson: So if you can code, then you should code and you'll know right like if you're if you're if you try and take CS courses and you're not doing very well, and you have lots of errors and stuff, then you should probably do something else.
Benjamin Hammer: makes sense, makes sense, so.
shawn Nelson: i'm all over the place, with that one because it's a lot of your own sort of decisions, but you don't really have a bad direction to go I would do masters over getting another bachelor's unless that bachelor in CS.
Benjamin Hammer: gotcha gotcha well, I think that should clear it up for jack there.
Benjamin Hammer: So i'll move on to Stevens first question here.
Benjamin Hammer: He asked with many positions having a certain skill set or experience needed for the position, what would be needed for someone to apply or get the position for creative game director.
Benjamin Hammer: that's a big one.
shawn Nelson: yeah.
shawn Nelson: that's big you know what i've known a lot of creative directors.
shawn Nelson: And i'm not sure what they've ever done to get to those positions.
shawn Nelson: Because they're all great I don't know they like to seem to walk around a lot and have lunches I think.
shawn Nelson: They know you need yeah you need to practice going to restaurants and saying things in meetings that are kind of just blanket statements that don't really do anything.
Benjamin Hammer: linkedin make friends.
shawn Nelson: yeah.
Benjamin Hammer: There you go.
shawn Nelson: Just like I really like the feel of how the game is going today.
shawn Nelson: But yeah it's really you know, overall I think it's better than it was yesterday, like thanks creative director.
Benjamin Hammer: that's the.
shawn Nelson: that's the kind of insight, you need.
shawn Nelson: Stephen has.
Benjamin Hammer: clicked that in mind.
shawn Nelson: But but, honestly.
shawn Nelson: that the game direct the the creative director trackers usually from.
shawn Nelson: From art director and then up to creative director so, however, you want to get to art director, you can get there from from being most of them come from concept art.
shawn Nelson: concept you're a concept artist then you're an art director and then you're you can go into creative director.
shawn Nelson: You can do that from animation to you know animation animation director and that creative director.
Benjamin Hammer: And that'll give you plenty of chances along the way to make friends so.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah which sounds like is something you'll need no matter what position.
Benjamin Hammer: You want in in the industry so.
shawn Nelson: Like that he's got a giant lofty goal like that's a.
shawn Nelson: plumber's position and have a game studio.
shawn Nelson: For it Stephen go for it.
Benjamin Hammer: I think it's great.
Benjamin Hammer: i'll circle back around to some of the additional questions, a couple of people ask multiple questions.
Benjamin Hammer: But I want to make sure I get through everybody's at least one from everybody so Valentina asks what programming languages are employers looking for now, would you recommend learning or becoming familiar with a specific one.
shawn Nelson: Oh just don't learn Python that's a garbage no i'm just kidding I know that.
shawn Nelson: Well, it really depends on what you want to do right now pythons really hot big because everybody needs tools programmers so you can get a job.
shawn Nelson: As a what they call it technical artists, where all you do is write export tools, so you need to know a little bit of unreal and you need to know a little bit of Maya, which is a 3D software program.
shawn Nelson: or blender whatever people are using.
shawn Nelson: And the and that's you know I look for those every day like somebody who's had a technical artists are technical animator who has Python knowledge is like gold so.
shawn Nelson: And then.
shawn Nelson: A lot of the people who work with unity or C plus C sharp and c++.
shawn Nelson: People and and the people who do all the rendering and stuff just we don't do a whole lot of like there's no real need for back end or front end engineer, however, if you have the skills go work at Twitter and make a lot more money.
Benjamin Hammer: For sure hey that makes sense that makes sense, so Python.
Benjamin Hammer: c++ C sharp depending on the engine, you have experienced in.
Benjamin Hammer: And also, knowing.
Benjamin Hammer: 3D modeling program like my are blender it's a good idea is what you're saying.
shawn Nelson: yeah because those those well from my experience, those are most of the gigs are tools programmers gotcha gotcha.
Benjamin Hammer: So any any room for javascript html5 games like.
Benjamin Hammer: Facebook.
Benjamin Hammer: Development yes so 2.0 or something like that.
shawn Nelson: Actually Facebook, because using a new kind.
shawn Nelson: Of minute to now yeah matt is using some sort of a new kind of code I don't know but it's a big secret i'm not saying anything publicly.
shawn Nelson: yeah Okay, which is it's more like a nodal a nodal Python which is crazy, but I don't know what it's called interesting what what they're up to.
Probably.
Benjamin Hammer: A better bridge the gap between their web games and.
Benjamin Hammer: vr games.
shawn Nelson: it's kind of funky name like prospectus or something perspective, something weird like that, so I think for a second.
Benjamin Hammer: No worries.
Benjamin Hammer: Okay, so secondary questions here we're going to loop back around if you still have time.
Benjamin Hammer: If not, we can move on to something else if you had something else in mind.
shawn Nelson: No, no, this is, I was only going to do a Q amp a for that.
shawn Nelson: cool cool.
shawn Nelson: right on so you have anything else to say.
Benjamin Hammer: Okay, we have a few more here a couple more from lex they're asking I believe this was where I left off.
Benjamin Hammer: Many students are able to utilize accommodations to help foster their learning how might or how does the game industry or game companies implement accessibility accommodations.
shawn Nelson: um.
shawn Nelson: i'm not sure what the question is.
Benjamin Hammer: Can.
Benjamin Hammer: You, let me, let me try to rephrase that I don't know if I read it.
Benjamin Hammer: Completely correctly they're they're basically asking what sorts of accessibility accommodations we might expect when working in the game industry, so if we have any kind of disability are there are there, accessibility accommodations offer yeah.
shawn Nelson: hundred percent yeah Okay, no, no, the game, the games industry in its.
shawn Nelson: HR sort of stuff and people people being nice to people skill things his way up there it's like one of the most progressive around great right hold on second i'm gonna throw a bone up my dog.
Benjamin Hammer: Hopefully, I understood that.
Benjamin Hammer: correctly there lex if I didn't please correct me in the chat.
shawn Nelson: For instance, lex if you need a special chair, or something they would definitely buy you that.
shawn Nelson: Okay dogs are stated.
Benjamin Hammer: What is the dog's name.
shawn Nelson: I have three dogs in the House today my my two are polka and hula and then my parents dog is here, his name's Leo.
shawn Nelson: who got Mike.
Benjamin Hammer: And Leo.
shawn Nelson: barking one is 14 and she's kinda has.
shawn Nelson: Dementia so every once a while so just start barking like a fire alarm.
Benjamin Hammer: that's okay she's just trying to say hi.
shawn Nelson: yeah i've been emerging The thing is i'm not on the couch watching TV with her so she's like hey.
Benjamin Hammer: Come on, come on come on Come on, we need to watch TV.
Benjamin Hammer: No worries well she she hasn't bothered us at all do designers need these skills as in a group communication okay.
Benjamin Hammer: Let me try to parse this question here, I copied and pasted it and did not understand what she was asking.
Benjamin Hammer: I believe the question is asking is communication or other group integration and group working skills, important.
shawn Nelson: For in the games industry.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah.
shawn Nelson: yeah everything's a team effort.
shawn Nelson: So absolutely you can't you'd have to communicate in some way or another, but you know if.
shawn Nelson: If you've, for instance, a disability or something that prohibits you from communicating in a standard fashion, then allowances would be made you know we're just after the suit your super beautiful mind.
shawn Nelson: And what you can your creativity that you can bring to stuff how you get that convey that across things it's a different story.
shawn Nelson: run.
shawn Nelson: Right certainly i've seen programmers not talked to anybody for a year, so.
Benjamin Hammer: Certainly, I think that may.
Benjamin Hammer: That question may have.
Benjamin Hammer: fallen a little flat there, it might be something I am not understanding in the way it is worded once again if I made any mistakes in my my communication of that question, please let me know let's.
Benjamin Hammer: let's see here, are there any more, I believe there's a couple more from Stephen Stephen also asked.
Benjamin Hammer: What is the turnover rate for positions once a game is released.
shawn Nelson: Oh that's a good one good it depends so.
shawn Nelson: Most people will stick around the site, let me get into the cycle of working on a game.
shawn Nelson: So the cycle working on the game is the game is created, and you get into pre production and they start hiring people and people start working on the game and the game hits different milestones which are.
shawn Nelson: points in the game where it has to be done a certain amount before they will give you more money.
shawn Nelson: And so you hit these milestones and you move on to the next one, you move on the next one, and then all of a sudden.
shawn Nelson: The game is you're like almost done with the game, and then a lot of people will be pulled off of that game and put on to the next game already so that they can begin work on mafia four or whatever they're going to.
shawn Nelson: And then the people still working on that game once they done once they're done hopefully the people that have moved went ahead of them.
shawn Nelson: have done enough work where they can start working on it, for instance.
shawn Nelson: Towards the end of the game, the concept artists will be moved off of that game and on to another one, so that they can start creating concepts.
shawn Nelson: So that when the modelers who are on the game that they're finishing move off of that game they can then move on to the new game and start modeling the stuff that's concept for them ahead of time and then the animators who were finishing the game.
shawn Nelson: move over because the models are now done and they can start working on it and then it kind of cascades like that hopefully.
shawn Nelson: about it.
shawn Nelson: A lot of times, towards the end of the game, a company will swell its numbers in order to finish on time.
shawn Nelson: And they generally swell their their company with college students that don't know any better, but are good bodies and seats and they are sometimes referred to, sometimes referred to as cigarettes because they'll make them work a lot and then throw them away when they're done.
shawn Nelson: Not every company does this, but the big benefit to this to college students are like hey that's not fair to college students but.
shawn Nelson: They got their first gig right now it's on the resume once you get your first gig on your resume you can go get a second gig a lot easier all right you've worked, you know, like I worked on dead space.
shawn Nelson: And now you can go work on.
shawn Nelson: Something else, but you have an actual screen craft, so I would never not take a job.
shawn Nelson: Even if it, you know, like there's like a higher you attempt to hire something like there's all sorts of.
shawn Nelson: Like i'm quite often or when I was working in Dev I was quite often brought in to finish games, because I do good cleanup work and stuff.
shawn Nelson: Right like if they need to finish something they would hire me but i'd only be on till the game was done, and then they would let me go and then they would hire the younger kids who cost less to.
shawn Nelson: Do all the intro work.
shawn Nelson: And then hire me again months later to clean up the work that they messed up.
Benjamin Hammer: Totally yeah.
shawn Nelson: yeah I.
Benjamin Hammer: Life of there's many industries that work that.
Benjamin Hammer: same way yeah yeah so right on right on, I am not sure I think I have maybe one more question here, oh one more from TIM.
Benjamin Hammer: Could someone at a Community college level of education, get an internship or do developers only look at higher level education for even internships, I think this ties in perfectly to what you were just talking about.
shawn Nelson: At the edge level education yeah.
Benjamin Hammer: You might be pulled into be a cigarette.
shawn Nelson: yeah, no, no, no, we only hire cool people not people from Community college i'm sorry okay yeah.
Benjamin Hammer: got it so nevermind TIM.
Benjamin Hammer: So it hopes hopes and dreams shut down she.
shawn Nelson: went to Stanford sorry but no.
shawn Nelson: I didn't include a Community community.
I did.
shawn Nelson: Internships are open to students from every single kind of score that there are all you have to do is be enrolled in the school, so that you can get into the internship program you can actually be graduated from the school recently and still be eligible for the internship program.
Benjamin Hammer: gotcha gotcha.
Benjamin Hammer: So right on.
shawn Nelson: you're in the right place, you can just write pick a studio you want to work out and send them an email and see if they'll take you as an internship there's so many studios around.
shawn Nelson: And all it takes is you to send them an email it's not like they're they don't want to talk to you.
shawn Nelson: that most people are very happy to say Oh, thank you, sorry our internship programs busy or we were just getting that started, you need to have your resume and what's your linkedin address and.
shawn Nelson: Show me where your portfolio is so you want to get that stuff that's what I was saying before when they have your package together before you start reaching out.
shawn Nelson: But totally you can reach out to any studio there they're all over the place to K.
shawn Nelson: mbas always hiring.
shawn Nelson: interns.
Benjamin Hammer: And, if nothing else, a very valuable lesson going through that process is just rejection learning how to deal with rejection, because you will absolutely in any industry you move into.
Benjamin Hammer: have to know how to deal healthily with rejection so.
Benjamin Hammer: it's if it's nothing else.
shawn Nelson: Get rejected rejections never really personal nobody rejection because you're a jerk right or they don't like your hair or something.
shawn Nelson: They reject you because your skills aren't up where they need them to be so a rejection is only a marker that you need to increase your skill set so the.
shawn Nelson: skill set.
shawn Nelson: be high enough where you won't get rejected anymore.
Benjamin Hammer: Right.
shawn Nelson: Right, where they'll be desperate enough to hire you with lower skill set and then your skill set still raised taking that job and.
Benjamin Hammer: Totally awesome well I do see one last question in the chat here, I did not get a chance to paste this over into my list it's from another question from from Ben he asked his did you ever work on earthworm Jim that was.
Benjamin Hammer: His first favorite games.
shawn Nelson: Was it, you know earthworm Jim.
shawn Nelson: My stupid past earthworm Jim was the game that that.
shawn Nelson: killed my movie career.
Benjamin Hammer: Okay.
shawn Nelson: There I was a Grad student at usc.
shawn Nelson: And we, we were the first people to ever graduate from usc with animation degrees, so we could go literally, the only 12 of us and we go work anywhere, we want it in Hollywood like any studio.
shawn Nelson: Warner brothers was knocking on our door and TIM Burton everybody, you know, like hey come work for us, you guys know 3D nobody knows three day.
shawn Nelson: and
shawn Nelson: I really love playing earthworm Jim.
shawn Nelson: And I was reading animation magazine, and they had an ad for earthworm Jim in the back of it like hey come work on earthworm Jim.
shawn Nelson: And i'm like I love earthworm Jim that was such a fun game and so instead of going and working on Mars attacks I ended up, and it was I had the choice I was going to work on either Mars attacks or earth or go work and shiny.
shawn Nelson: and
shawn Nelson: The night before I had to make my decision I like had one night right, I had to tell either one of them stupid shiny called and offered me 10 grand or more.
shawn Nelson: that's like well that's really hard to pass up yeah.
shawn Nelson: So that.
shawn Nelson: That.
shawn Nelson: started my descent into games, so I went I went to go work at shiny on earthworm Jim.
Benjamin Hammer: and very cool so that was your your first.
Benjamin Hammer: Your first steps into the game industry.
shawn Nelson: It would have been.
Benjamin Hammer: Oh, oh.
Benjamin Hammer: It wasn't quite your first steps, did I misunderstand that.
shawn Nelson: No, no, no let's not.
shawn Nelson: confuse them before I like I worked, I worked.
shawn Nelson: On doing criminal stuff like I worked on gumby and I worked on nightmare before Christmas, for like a day or two okay and and then I switched to computers and I went I went into 2d animation and then switched into computers, but.
shawn Nelson: So I was a film guy and I went to usc.
shawn Nelson: But then.
shawn Nelson: I got I went to go work on earthworm Jim I signed up to work on earthworm Jim thing like oh no we're putting on a new project.
Benjamin Hammer: gotcha gotcha gotcha okay.
shawn Nelson: They were almost done with earthworm Jim when I was there, like I know all the people who worked on it, they were making it right next to me, but I was on this like elite little secret team making SDK.
shawn Nelson: So.
shawn Nelson: We did that that was okay.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah right on.
Benjamin Hammer: yeah well cool awesome Thank you Sean.
shawn Nelson: you're welcome.
Benjamin Hammer: there's a lot of fun conversation yeah yeah and a lot of.
Benjamin Hammer: it's not a cat anymore hey he is a person.
Ethan Wilde: My zoom crashed I lost my Avatar.
Ethan Wilde: An amazing journey took us on Sean I really I am i'm kind of speechless I don't know really quite how to thank you, but on behalf of everybody here tonight.
Ethan Wilde: Some students that I recognize some some colleagues who are faculty at the JC are here as well, an amazing job of walking everybody through the landscape of working in the game industry.
Ethan Wilde: It was really a pleasure to have you here Thank you so much Sean.
shawn Nelson: Thank you, and if anybody wants to follow up with me, for whatever reason, not just let me know.
Ethan Wilde: Wonderful that is great news we're going to be back again in April with our fourth speaker who happens to be Dr lex puello who is one of the persons who submitted a bunch of questions tonight.
Ethan Wilde: he'll be talking about creating board games for change so.
Ethan Wilde: lex has worked on analog games board games, I think.
Ethan Wilde: it's really wonderful to to have these kind of events and again people like Sean make this possible Sean did this as a volunteer i've got no special swag Unfortunately I gotta wrestle something up to mail you.
shawn Nelson: The thing.
Ethan Wilde: For this effort.
Ethan Wilde: But yes thanks again and until April 28 at 6pm yeah hope hope to see everybody back again and and i'm going to follow up with you Sean to.
Ethan Wilde: To stay in touch.
Ethan Wilde: Thanks man for doing a great Q amp a management routine very good at that.
Ethan Wilde: And Sean.
shawn Nelson: i'm have a plan and then deviate from it, if you feel like.
shawn Nelson: i'm not that.
shawn Nelson: The theme at night.
Ethan Wilde: Man and be prepared to deviate that sounds like a good way to approach the world okay with that said i'm going to leave those words wisdom, as our closing i'm going to shut down zoom and if anybody wants to share this.
Ethan Wilde: talk with your friends back on the computer studies department website at CS Santa rosa.edu slash game views i'll have a link up to the zoom recording of this session.
Ethan Wilde: By tomorrow so feel free to tell your friends if they missed out tonight to come and check out shawn nelson's amazing tour of breaking into the industry night everybody.
shawn Nelson: good night Thank you guys.
Benjamin Hammer: good night thanks again.